EPSON ACULASER C 900

Discussion in 'Epson' started by ferruccio levi, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. The EPSON ACULASER C900 color printer has 4 different toner cartridges:
    black, magenta, cyan and yellow.
    Most of my color prints use yellow as background color, so I expected the
    yellow cartridge to empty before cyan and magenta.
    On the contrary, the STATUS MONITOR detected the three color cartridges as
    empty exactly at the same time; there was no way to proceed with printing
    without replacing all the cartridges.
    I weighed the old cartridges, and the yellow one was clearly lighter than
    the others.
    Is this normal ?
    Did anyone experience the same phenomenon ?

    Many thanks in advance.

    Ferruccio Levi
     
    ferruccio levi, Oct 21, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. ferruccio levi

    SleeperMan Guest

    ferruccio levi wrote:
    > The EPSON ACULASER C900 color printer has 4 different toner
    > cartridges: black, magenta, cyan and yellow.
    > Most of my color prints use yellow as background color, so I expected
    > the yellow cartridge to empty before cyan and magenta.
    > On the contrary, the STATUS MONITOR detected the three color
    > cartridges as empty exactly at the same time; there was no way to
    > proceed with printing without replacing all the cartridges.
    > I weighed the old cartridges, and the yellow one was clearly lighter
    > than the others.
    > Is this normal ?
    > Did anyone experience the same phenomenon ?
    >
    > Many thanks in advance.
    >
    > Ferruccio Levi


    I remember once i've read review about several laser printers and all of
    them are showing empty toner way too soon. On some printers testers were
    able to print over 1000 pages AFTER this warning appeared. The problem is if
    you can't print after this warning appears...
    Then....you're in deep shit...
    try to find some workaround this warning, or replace just yellow toner
    (maybe you can even empty "almost" empty cart into new one and save
    left-over toner in old one---if cart can be opened).

    BTW----how are photos, printed with such printer comparable with inkjets
    (and what kind of paper yo you use), like Canon iP4000, or i850...? are
    same, way off, better?
    I'm really curious about this...and also what are the prices of toner carts?
    THX.
     
    SleeperMan, Oct 21, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. According to the user manual, the STATUS MONITOR should send a warning when
    a single cartridge is nearly empty, asking to "have ready" a new cartridge.
    Apparently, after the warning it is possible to print a fixed number of
    pages (a few hundreds): then the printer is locked until the cartridge is
    replaced.

    This is almost normal and acceptable; but both the warning and the printing
    lock occurred EXACTLY at the same time for all the three color cartridges.
    The EPSON assistance swore that each cartridge has its own detector, but my
    feeling is that this is a lie: apparently there is a separate detector for
    the black cartridge, but a single detector for the three color cartridges,
    to force the user to anticipate replacement.

    But to confirm this feeling, I need to know whether my experience is normal
    or it is an ecception.

    Each cartridge (no matter the color) is about 130 Euro + 20 % tax in Italy;
    i changed the first black cartridge at about 3500 pages, and the first three
    color cartridges at about 5500 pages.

    Color photos are satisfactory on normal paper, but not comparable with
    chemical photo prints; they are more opaque with respect to inkjet prints,
    but much more cheap.

    Ferruccio Levi

    "SleeperMan" <> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:piQdd.4632$...

    > I remember once i've read review about several laser printers and all of
    > them are showing empty toner way too soon. On some printers testers were
    > able to print over 1000 pages AFTER this warning appeared. The problem is
    > if you can't print after this warning appears...
    > Then....you're in deep shit...
    > try to find some workaround this warning, or replace just yellow toner
    > (maybe you can even empty "almost" empty cart into new one and save
    > left-over toner in old one---if cart can be opened).
    >
    > BTW----how are photos, printed with such printer comparable with inkjets
    > (and what kind of paper yo you use), like Canon iP4000, or i850...? are
    > same, way off, better?
    > I'm really curious about this...and also what are the prices of toner
    > carts? THX.
    >
     
    ferruccio levi, Oct 21, 2004
    #3
  4. ferruccio levi

    SleeperMan Guest

    ferruccio levi wrote:
    > According to the user manual, the STATUS MONITOR should send a
    > warning when a single cartridge is nearly empty, asking to "have
    > ready" a new cartridge. Apparently, after the warning it is possible
    > to print a fixed number of pages (a few hundreds): then the printer
    > is locked until the cartridge is replaced.
    >
    > This is almost normal and acceptable; but both the warning and the
    > printing lock occurred EXACTLY at the same time for all the three
    > color cartridges. The EPSON assistance swore that each cartridge has
    > its own detector, but my feeling is that this is a lie: apparently
    > there is a separate detector for the black cartridge, but a single
    > detector for the three color cartridges, to force the user to
    > anticipate replacement.
    > But to confirm this feeling, I need to know whether my experience is
    > normal or it is an ecception.
    >
    > Each cartridge (no matter the color) is about 130 Euro + 20 % tax in
    > Italy; i changed the first black cartridge at about 3500 pages, and
    > the first three color cartridges at about 5500 pages.
    >
    > Color photos are satisfactory on normal paper, but not comparable with
    > chemical photo prints; they are more opaque with respect to inkjet
    > prints, but much more cheap.
    >
    > Ferruccio Levi
    >


    That's odd...

    I wonder, what would happen if you remove and insert same toner...will
    printer see that it's old one or would it assume that it's a new one...
    It's a good question how much toner is still inside when you throw away the
    cart...
     
    SleeperMan, Oct 22, 2004
    #4
  5. If I remove and insert again a cartridge detected as empty, it is detected
    as empty again.

    The final weight of the "empty" cartridges were as follows:
    yellow: 532 g
    magenta: 543 g
    cyan 541 g

    Toner filling in a replacement cartridge is about 110 g; EPSON states that
    orignal cartridges are filled with 1/3 of replacement ones; that is about 37
    g of toner; then the "empty" magenta cartridge should be still filled,
    apparently, with at least 11 g, that is about 30 %.

    Ferruccio Levi

    "SleeperMan" <> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:xL7ed.4646$...
    > ferruccio levi wrote:
    >> According to the user manual, the STATUS MONITOR should send a
    >> warning when a single cartridge is nearly empty, asking to "have
    >> ready" a new cartridge. Apparently, after the warning it is possible
    >> to print a fixed number of pages (a few hundreds): then the printer
    >> is locked until the cartridge is replaced.
    >>
    >> This is almost normal and acceptable; but both the warning and the
    >> printing lock occurred EXACTLY at the same time for all the three
    >> color cartridges. The EPSON assistance swore that each cartridge has
    >> its own detector, but my feeling is that this is a lie: apparently
    >> there is a separate detector for the black cartridge, but a single
    >> detector for the three color cartridges, to force the user to
    >> anticipate replacement.
    >> But to confirm this feeling, I need to know whether my experience is
    >> normal or it is an ecception.
    >>
    >> Each cartridge (no matter the color) is about 130 Euro + 20 % tax in
    >> Italy; i changed the first black cartridge at about 3500 pages, and
    >> the first three color cartridges at about 5500 pages.
    >>
    >> Color photos are satisfactory on normal paper, but not comparable with
    >> chemical photo prints; they are more opaque with respect to inkjet
    >> prints, but much more cheap.
    >>
    >> Ferruccio Levi
    >>

    >
    > That's odd...
    >
    > I wonder, what would happen if you remove and insert same toner...will
    > printer see that it's old one or would it assume that it's a new one...
    > It's a good question how much toner is still inside when you throw away
    > the cart...
    >
     
    ferruccio levi, Oct 25, 2004
    #5
  6. ferruccio levi

    SleeperMan Guest

    ferruccio levi wrote:
    > If I remove and insert again a cartridge detected as empty, it is
    > detected as empty again.
    >
    > The final weight of the "empty" cartridges were as follows:
    > yellow: 532 g
    > magenta: 543 g
    > cyan 541 g
    >
    > Toner filling in a replacement cartridge is about 110 g; EPSON states
    > that orignal cartridges are filled with 1/3 of replacement ones; that
    > is about 37 g of toner; then the "empty" magenta cartridge should be
    > still filled, apparently, with at least 11 g, that is about 30 %.
    >
    > Ferruccio Levi


    SO, Epson doesn't fully fills orignal carts...that's...well...not
    good...bastards...!
    I guess opening of used (or new ) carts is not possible? I mean to move
    toner form used to a new one...




    >
    > "SleeperMan" <> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:xL7ed.4646$...
    >> ferruccio levi wrote:
    >>> According to the user manual, the STATUS MONITOR should send a
    >>> warning when a single cartridge is nearly empty, asking to "have
    >>> ready" a new cartridge. Apparently, after the warning it is possible
    >>> to print a fixed number of pages (a few hundreds): then the printer
    >>> is locked until the cartridge is replaced.
    >>>
    >>> This is almost normal and acceptable; but both the warning and the
    >>> printing lock occurred EXACTLY at the same time for all the three
    >>> color cartridges. The EPSON assistance swore that each cartridge has
    >>> its own detector, but my feeling is that this is a lie: apparently
    >>> there is a separate detector for the black cartridge, but a single
    >>> detector for the three color cartridges, to force the user to
    >>> anticipate replacement.
    >>> But to confirm this feeling, I need to know whether my experience is
    >>> normal or it is an ecception.
    >>>
    >>> Each cartridge (no matter the color) is about 130 Euro + 20 % tax in
    >>> Italy; i changed the first black cartridge at about 3500 pages, and
    >>> the first three color cartridges at about 5500 pages.
    >>>
    >>> Color photos are satisfactory on normal paper, but not comparable
    >>> with chemical photo prints; they are more opaque with respect to
    >>> inkjet prints, but much more cheap.
    >>>
    >>> Ferruccio Levi
    >>>

    >>
    >> That's odd...
    >>
    >> I wonder, what would happen if you remove and insert same
    >> toner...will printer see that it's old one or would it assume that
    >> it's a new one... It's a good question how much toner is still
    >> inside when you throw away the cart...
     
    SleeperMan, Oct 25, 2004
    #6
  7. > SO, Epson doesn't fully fills orignal carts...that's...well...not
    > good...bastards...!


    We must acknowledge that this is clearly stated in the advertisement
    booklet...
    (with a font greater than some strange clauses in insurance policies in
    Italy...)

    Ferruccio Levi
     
    ferruccio levi, Oct 27, 2004
    #7
  8. I can't speak for Epson color laser cartridges, but most companies make
    their cartridges in such a manner as they can be refilled with toner by
    a refilling company if not on your own.

    Since the "starter" cartridges are only 1/3rd full you should be able to
    get a full toner charge out of the other parts in the cartridge without
    any problems with wear, if you can find a reliable refiller.

    Almost all color laser manufacturers have gone to the same model that is
    used with inkjet printers. The idea is to make up the profit lost of
    selling the printer below market value by having you buy new cartridges
    sets. The cost of the cartridge set and other consumables often is
    greater than replacing the printer with a new set of cartridges. That
    is why they don't give you full cartridges with the new printer.... if
    they did people would toss the printer after the cartridges ran "dry"
    and just replace it. Sadly, all printer manufactures are going to this
    model with lasers. They used to supply full cartridges, but the cost of
    the printers were considerably more costly, as a result.

    The best way to beat them at their own game is to have the cartridges
    refilled. SOme require a new fuse be put in, as they are designed to
    blow when the toner runs low, in order to deter refilling.

    If you don't like this, complain to both the manufacturers and to your
    government environmental offices.

    Art



    SleeperMan wrote:

    > ferruccio levi wrote:
    >
    >>If I remove and insert again a cartridge detected as empty, it is
    >>detected as empty again.
    >>
    >>The final weight of the "empty" cartridges were as follows:
    >>yellow: 532 g
    >>magenta: 543 g
    >>cyan 541 g
    >>
    >>Toner filling in a replacement cartridge is about 110 g; EPSON states
    >>that orignal cartridges are filled with 1/3 of replacement ones; that
    >>is about 37 g of toner; then the "empty" magenta cartridge should be
    >>still filled, apparently, with at least 11 g, that is about 30 %.
    >>
    >>Ferruccio Levi

    >
    >
    > SO, Epson doesn't fully fills orignal carts...that's...well...not
    > good...bastards...!
    > I guess opening of used (or new ) carts is not possible? I mean to move
    > toner form used to a new one...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >>"SleeperMan" <> ha scritto nel messaggio
    >>news:xL7ed.4646$...
    >>
    >>>ferruccio levi wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>According to the user manual, the STATUS MONITOR should send a
    >>>>warning when a single cartridge is nearly empty, asking to "have
    >>>>ready" a new cartridge. Apparently, after the warning it is possible
    >>>>to print a fixed number of pages (a few hundreds): then the printer
    >>>>is locked until the cartridge is replaced.
    >>>>
    >>>>This is almost normal and acceptable; but both the warning and the
    >>>>printing lock occurred EXACTLY at the same time for all the three
    >>>>color cartridges. The EPSON assistance swore that each cartridge has
    >>>>its own detector, but my feeling is that this is a lie: apparently
    >>>>there is a separate detector for the black cartridge, but a single
    >>>>detector for the three color cartridges, to force the user to
    >>>>anticipate replacement.
    >>>>But to confirm this feeling, I need to know whether my experience is
    >>>>normal or it is an ecception.
    >>>>
    >>>>Each cartridge (no matter the color) is about 130 Euro + 20 % tax in
    >>>>Italy; i changed the first black cartridge at about 3500 pages, and
    >>>>the first three color cartridges at about 5500 pages.
    >>>>
    >>>>Color photos are satisfactory on normal paper, but not comparable
    >>>>with chemical photo prints; they are more opaque with respect to
    >>>>inkjet prints, but much more cheap.
    >>>>
    >>>>Ferruccio Levi
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>That's odd...
    >>>
    >>>I wonder, what would happen if you remove and insert same
    >>>toner...will printer see that it's old one or would it assume that
    >>>it's a new one... It's a good question how much toner is still
    >>>inside when you throw away the cart...

    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Arthur Entlich, Oct 27, 2004
    #8
  9. ferruccio levi

    SleeperMan Guest

    ferruccio levi wrote:
    >> SO, Epson doesn't fully fills orignal carts...that's...well...not
    >> good...bastards...!

    >
    > We must acknowledge that this is clearly stated in the advertisement
    > booklet...
    > (with a font greater than some strange clauses in insurance policies
    > in Italy...)
    >
    > Ferruccio Levi


    At least that...i would think that warning will be with small letters....
     
    SleeperMan, Oct 27, 2004
    #9
  10. ferruccio levi

    SleeperMan Guest

    Arthur Entlich wrote:
    > I can't speak for Epson color laser cartridges, but most companies
    > make their cartridges in such a manner as they can be refilled with
    > toner by a refilling company if not on your own.
    >
    > Since the "starter" cartridges are only 1/3rd full you should be able
    > to get a full toner charge out of the other parts in the cartridge
    > without any problems with wear, if you can find a reliable refiller.
    >
    > Almost all color laser manufacturers have gone to the same model that
    > is used with inkjet printers. The idea is to make up the profit lost
    > of selling the printer below market value by having you buy new
    > cartridges sets. The cost of the cartridge set and other consumables
    > often is greater than replacing the printer with a new set of
    > cartridges. That is why they don't give you full cartridges with the
    > new printer.... if they did people would toss the printer after the
    > cartridges ran "dry" and just replace it. Sadly, all printer
    > manufactures are going to this model with lasers. They used to
    > supply full cartridges, but the cost of the printers were
    > considerably more costly, as a result.
    > The best way to beat them at their own game is to have the cartridges
    > refilled. SOme require a new fuse be put in, as they are designed to
    > blow when the toner runs low, in order to deter refilling.
    >
    > If you don't like this, complain to both the manufacturers and to your
    > government environmental offices.
    >
    > Art
    >


    well...
    i refilled my Canon i550 for a year and a half, when head died (all colors
    are flushing all over). Now, i spoke with some guys (like servicemen etc),
    and more or less all said that ink is the cause of that. I don't know now if
    this is true or not, i just think that 1.5 year is a bit too short for a
    printer to last - and i didn't print so much that a man could assume that
    it's worn out.
    I'll try now (with my iP4000) with original ink and...we'll see, won't we?

    But, to go back to lasers...
    Prices of those are going down fast. It's just, sometimes we assumed that
    output is ...great..., while now i hear that it can' tbe comparable with
    (good) inkjets. And price per sheet is also not so damn low, so i wonder,
    why are they good...maybe for archiving purposes, since i bet that toner
    last longer than ink, or water resistance, or speed...

    I know that all manufacturers try to gain their loss with ink (or toner).
    It's just so much ink (or toner) supplliers on the market, and all says like
    " mine is the best!" that is very difficult to decide...
     
    SleeperMan, Oct 27, 2004
    #10
  11. ferruccio levi

    John Guest

    "ferruccio levi" <> wrote:

    >If I remove and insert again a cartridge detected as empty, it is detected
    >as empty again.
    >
    >The final weight of the "empty" cartridges were as follows:
    >yellow: 532 g
    >magenta: 543 g
    >cyan 541 g
    >
    >Toner filling in a replacement cartridge is about 110 g; EPSON states that
    >orignal cartridges are filled with 1/3 of replacement ones; that is about 37
    >g of toner; then the "empty" magenta cartridge should be still filled,
    >apparently, with at least 11 g, that is about 30 %.


    I have found some useful information from www.refilltoner.com when I
    bought a trial refill kit.

    First point - an empty toner cartridge weighs 500 grams - I can
    confirm this as I have just completely emptied the original black
    cartridge - I got far less from it (2317 total, 987 black and 1330
    colour) than you did but this may be a difference between my printer,
    which is the C1900 and your c900 although both use the same cartridge
    - Epson are getting meaner, maybe.

    Second point - the cartridge can be returned to 'full' by
    repositioning a lever - its a slightly complicated procedure but, when
    you buy a toner refill, you get the full info - the web site maybe
    doesn't give as much info as I recall.

    This particular supplier of toner allows you to fill at half cost and
    you of course get the full cartridge 'life' of 4500 pages for the
    C1900 (according to Epson) - maybe by fully emptying the cartridge
    you'll get more.

    Unfortunately, for this discussion, I haven't yet done a refill - I
    had a spare replacement black in readiness - so I can't say more about
    how this refill operation goes. One thing is clear and that is that
    if you don't fully empty the cartridge, and use the full recharge by
    emptying the new toner container, you can get jams.

    As for print quality, there is no comparison between a top grade
    inkjet and these Epson 600 dpi printers. If you print landscape
    pictures you immediately see the lack of smooth gradation in cloud
    formations. However, for family pics taken with a digicam, its great
    to churn out good-looking portraits, etc, full A4, on cheap paper, and
    the printing takes less than 30 seconds per page.

    I would love to know how much better the C4000 performs, with its 1200
    dpi resolution, but I suspect that gradation will still be a problem.

    Oh, and the other thing which is important for me is that when I make
    a book (I do them in A5 page size, 2 each side of an A4 sheet), the
    laser images won't (I hope, its still too early to be certain) 'print
    across' as do inkjet pics.

    Hope this helps.
     
    John, Oct 27, 2004
    #11
  12. SleeperMan wrote:


    >
    >
    > well...
    > i refilled my Canon i550 for a year and a half, when head died (all colors
    > are flushing all over). Now, i spoke with some guys (like servicemen etc),
    > and more or less all said that ink is the cause of that. I don't know now if
    > this is true or not, i just think that 1.5 year is a bit too short for a
    > printer to last - and i didn't print so much that a man could assume that
    > it's worn out.
    > I'll try now (with my iP4000) with original ink and...we'll see, won't we?


    I am suspect that the ink caused the failure. What aspect of the ink
    did what to the head? I've been hearing that 18 months with the newer
    Canon printers is not necessarily atypical even with Canon's own inks.

    >
    > But, to go back to lasers...
    > Prices of those are going down fast. It's just, sometimes we assumed that
    > output is ...great..., while now i hear that it can' tbe comparable with
    > (good) inkjets. And price per sheet is also not so damn low, so i wonder,
    > why are they good...maybe for archiving purposes, since i bet that toner
    > last longer than ink, or water resistance, or speed...
    >


    Yeap, all those reasons. No need for costly specialty paper (to a
    point). Much faster. Quality is not as good as inkjet but it is
    getting pretty good and improving all the time.

    Art

    > I know that all manufacturers try to gain their loss with ink (or toner).
    > It's just so much ink (or toner) supplliers on the market, and all says like
    > " mine is the best!" that is very difficult to decide...
    >
    >
     
    Arthur Entlich, Oct 28, 2004
    #12
  13. ferruccio levi

    SleeperMan Guest

    Arthur Entlich wrote:
    > SleeperMan wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> well...
    >> i refilled my Canon i550 for a year and a half, when head died (all
    >> colors are flushing all over). Now, i spoke with some guys (like
    >> servicemen etc), and more or less all said that ink is the cause of
    >> that. I don't know now if this is true or not, i just think that 1.5
    >> year is a bit too short for a printer to last - and i didn't print
    >> so much that a man could assume that it's worn out.
    >> I'll try now (with my iP4000) with original ink and...we'll see,
    >> won't we?

    >
    > I am suspect that the ink caused the failure. What aspect of the ink
    > did what to the head? I've been hearing that 18 months with the newer
    > Canon printers is not necessarily atypical even with Canon's own inks.


    When i didn't print for a day or so, first color print was all more or less
    blue or violet - it was lacking of red and especially yellow. But, if i
    printed test page of yellow, magenta and blue, instead of yellow it was
    violet, instead of magenta also violet....it was like those barriers between
    colors are broken so ink flows from one part to another. If i ran one or two
    head cleaning cycles and made a couple of prints, it was OK( i guess because
    ink was flowing so fast and colors didn't have time to mix)...but only until
    next day...i replaced carts, cleaned whole head(service did that), but no
    better...
    As said, now i decided to use original inks and i guess i'll see after 18
    months...
    If i calculate, i refilled 5-6 times and with this i saved a little more
    than the price of my new ip4000, so at the end it was not so drastic. And
    since technology improves, i've got new, better one (i hope)...but if head
    also dies on this one, then i'll be pissed off...


    >
    >>
    >> But, to go back to lasers...
    >> Prices of those are going down fast. It's just, sometimes we assumed
    >> that output is ...great..., while now i hear that it can' tbe
    >> comparable with (good) inkjets. And price per sheet is also not so
    >> damn low, so i wonder, why are they good...maybe for archiving
    >> purposes, since i bet that toner last longer than ink, or water
    >> resistance, or speed...

    >
    > Yeap, all those reasons. No need for costly specialty paper (to a
    > point). Much faster. Quality is not as good as inkjet but it is
    > getting pretty good and improving all the time.


    I think that one of the reasons is that such lasers have only 600 (or some
    1200) dpi, while inkjets (printed on photo paper) have 4800 dpi - that IS a
    difference. When lasers will reach so big resolution, i think inkjets will
    die...(well, as soon as prices f those will drop also)


    >
    > Art
    >
    >> I know that all manufacturers try to gain their loss with ink (or
    >> toner). It's just so much ink (or toner) supplliers on the market,
    >> and all says like " mine is the best!" that is very difficult to
    >> decide...
     
    SleeperMan, Oct 28, 2004
    #13
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